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Old 09-14-2010   #166
Ironhide
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Certain peds have internally set behaviors which are not affected as AW doesnt have access to them using normal code. I think there's a behavior structure in there somewhere like combat behavior but I haven't focused on experimenting with that yet. So bottom line at the moment is whatever the peds default behavior is beyond their relationship views are not changed.

The effect is as you noted. For cops as well they will not necessarily attack other cops even if those cops are shooting at you or them. All recruits do have their view of all peds in world set to Neutral, and Respect to the Player. You'll also notice some recruits get pissed off at other peds in the world and start shooting at them. That is all the game and their behaviors deciding to do that on their own.

Generally it's good to hear the way I did it is liked. I figured it would seem much more real and just be cool to snatch recruits off the street. Pulling up to a curb and refilling a car with recruits then blasting off down the road is pretty fun

The ability to change hotkeys uwsing the editor in game is coming along pretty well and will definitely be in the next release whenever it's done.
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Old 09-15-2010   #167
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i've discovered first hand about the behavior structure and it lies somewhere deep within, not in ped / peds / relationships / pedpersonality. I went in a made a custom setup using the above mentioned files, also cargrp / pedgrp / and shocking events. I have a custom set of files that when i replace the original's with those when you walk out into the street and fire a weapon all hell breaks loose in the area your in. I used gangs for the premise of my experiment. My modified shocking events allows for you to see peds standing off in the distance and collect as they "watch" gunfights. as the gunfight moves closer they run. Since many gangs and peds are present in an area, they start firing at you then at each other. All gangs have been given all identical values, bravery, +cancarryweapons etc.

I boosted the bravery / attack / defense of the gangs but only six of them will fire upon you regularly, one very, very rarely, and the other five not at all. they run like peds. hense somewhere a behavior structure.

i think some of those behaviors may be in .ped files in decision but it's completely numerical and theres no key to understand it, at least not that i've found.
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Old 09-15-2010   #168
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Ok hotkeys can now be edited in game.

Updated:

Ooops! Fixed a bug in last release that made the player assist toggle affect the war cores too.

But also wound up having some good new recruit related props in place before noticed the issue:

*********************
v2.0.2.4
*********************

[ Bugs ]

Fixed a critical bug introduced related to hot key toggles in v2.0.2.3. The war cores will no longer be affected by the player assist toggle.

Fixed a typo. Let me know if see any more.

[ Recruits ]

Added some new logic for recruiting after messing around with it for a bit.

PlayerAssist.RecruitingSkipCops=True // If True, Police will be skipped when nearby Peds are considered for recruitment.

PlayerAssist.RecruitingUseHonk=True // If True, and player is in a vehicle, player will tap honk a couple times.
/*

This will also be used in place of a message. The message will still show if not in a vehicle.

If the honks occurs, then a ped was in range and summoned to you. If not then the no peds message will still display.

*/

PlayerAssist.RecruitsMaxBlockTime=8000 // Controls the minimum time in milliseconds a new recruit has before they're allowed to respond to world events.
/*

This is used to prevent recruits from dropping their task of joining the player in a vehicle when they've just been recruited and something else gets their attention like combat.

The default gives them 8 seconds + innate animation times to make it to the vehicle regardless of any war raging around them.

This is only applicable if the player is in a vehicle when the recruit was signaled, only applies once, and only applies to new recruits.

Recruits already in combat when the player enters a vehicle will/may not automatically join in the car. This is normal behavior.

When a ped is in combat they are focused on living and killing the target, so just because the player entered a car doesn't change that.

*/

PlayerAssist.RecruitSenseRange=100 // Controls the sense range applied to new recruits.

Last edited by Ironhide; 09-15-2010 at 04:05 PM..
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Old 09-15-2010   #169
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Iron, since you were able to stop the front windows from "repairing" when the player assist is on so the player doesn't keep smashing out the windows, is it possible to do that for the rear passengers windows for the recruits?
"Your recruits have suffered trauma." Love it.
I read the revision history and looked in the editor for notes about a recruits max limitation and didn't see one, though that doesn't mean i didn't miss it. So i tried 10, even before i turned on any of the cores. The first seven would recruit okay. The eighth runs over to you / the group and drops dead like he "suffered trauma." It will always say that there are two slots left after you recruit the eighth, the recruit just ups and dies when he gets to you. It works the same with the cores on.
I think seven recruits is more than enough to kick some ass
"Reserve Corp Initializing / Online" is coming up correctly now.

AW has come SO far man. Nice work. This is, from the mods i've seen and played, the most in depth and well thought out one yet.

Last edited by motorsport71; 09-15-2010 at 08:42 PM..
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Old 09-15-2010   #170
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There is a game imposed limit of 7 (plus the player) in a group.

As noted in the config file:
PlayerAssist.RecruitsMax=3 // The max recruits for your group. This should never be greater than 7.

Thanks dude appreciate the compliment. Looks like folks can't be bothered to rate it or something not sure why but still a fun project. The rating is about teh only feedback I get since hardly anyone posts, and since it's not even being rated not sure if anyone thinks it's decent or not generally. But like I said before it's a personal interest thing. Fun to pull it off because it's hard to do
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Old 09-16-2010   #171
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Human nature is to only complain if something is wrong. Compliments are rare and seldom because of todays high expectations of everything. Courtesy, like chivalry, is dying. Years of customer service taught me that first hand.

Something i forgot to mention in the last post, i have to check it again tonight to be sure but i'm pretty sure when you use the "honk" feature it doesn't notify you a ped was recruited. I may of missed that in the notes too
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Old 09-16-2010   #172
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Yep that is true. As you know due to my career I've also experienced that but at a lower level tier 3+ dev support and can testify the same. People take absolutely everything for granted, and they do so almost instantly. That's why the "that's great but what have you done for me lately" came about. It's pretty sad and pathetic. They don't ever think about "hmm what was it like before gadget X existed for me to use? wow that would suck. damn this is awesome!" ...

You didn't miss it. Using the honk feature itself is the notification as I described in the config file. If that property is true and you're in a car and you hear a honk, then a ped was in range and called into service. It replaces the text in that case. Not hearing a honk while in a car means there wasn't one in range in which case the none in range still shows. If on foot then the messages are used like before. It was intended to make it more real so you pull up to a curb, honk, refill, blast off.

Regarding windows. If you recall I enhanced my raw API class to get around the annoyance of constantly rebreaking windows. Works great. Now that we also have recruits I've added the rear windows to it. And technically because "breaking" the window constantly was in itself the annoyance, the API actually removes the window from the car and doesn't break it. Thats why it disappears instead of breaking after the car is repaired. Hearing / seeing it constantly rebreak was simply annoying. But no more

I'm currently trying to figure out a non cheesy effective way of stopping existing recruits from shooting new recruits they were shooting at that got recruited. I was hoping the fact the recruit was added to the group would automatically do that since one would logically think "hey we were enemies but now im in your group stop shooting me you moron" but nope.

Updated:

Currently working on a number of critical fixes, sync issues and more useful enhancements to the system. Next version will bump the minor (and not rev) to 2.0.3.0 due to the number and types of things being worked on.

Updated:

v2.0.3.0 is posted.

Updated:

v2.0.3.0b is posted.

v2.0.3.1 will be a bug and performance pass.

Last edited by Ironhide; 09-19-2010 at 08:58 AM..
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Old 09-19-2010   #173
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Are you going to be raising the tickrates in 2.0.3.1? With the higher tickrates in .3.0b if someone was on the move the area didn't fill up very quickly, especially with car crews, no matter the preset of wars, chaos, rebellion, etc. It wasn't a problem for me, i just changed them. But for the average newbie to AW it may seem a less "violent". Maybe a good idea for a function to add to the editor would be a "Thug spawn speed" preset that would control the three core's tickrates? Maybe just three values, 1 for fast machines, 2 for average machines, and 3 for slow machines.
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Old 09-20-2010   #174
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@Motor

Actually I'm going to be making a dramatic change by implementing a main thread controller. Currently all cores are on their own thread. That will not change. However a down side of this fact is the 3 war cores always compete for resources and I had to implement an absurd amount of sync and other crap to try and deal with many, many problems that arise from this fact. I've been chewing the issue in the back of my head for awhile on potential ways to deal with it, and a particular idea I have keeps gaining strength as I think about it so I'm going to implement it and see what's what.

All cores will still be on their own thread but there will be a single global tickrate from which the war cores (not player assist) trigger from the controller. If it works then the war cores will lose the tickrate properties and a new single source tickrate for a new controller will be created. I still like your idea even though it would now only apply to a single property. The automation list I made is intended to make changing common props faster instead of having to hunt them down, so even though it would go from 3 to 1 it still applies and I'll probably do that.

Potentially:
War Tick Rate:
Aggressive
Moderate
Normal

etc


Updated:

Check out v2.1.0.0 and let me know Motor / All. It has been dramatically improved in performance by implementing some ideas I had. It's really huge improvement actually.

Updated:

With the latest optimized code I can now finally look into potentially adding PoliceSquads using what-ever police the game world is providing and have them go after crews, at-least initially.

Last edited by Ironhide; 09-23-2010 at 12:35 PM..
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Old 09-23-2010   #175
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@ Iron

Performance is great. I got 2 1/2 to 3 hours in and everything ran smoother than 2.0.3.1b even after my recent upgrades.
It looks like you've most of the bugs ironed out... no pun intended.

I do have a few last minute bits of input i'd like to put in though;

I was reminissing about the good old days of the orignal AW and realized that in the Mayhem there were car bombs. I really, really miss coming up on a car sitting in traffic that just exploded and went straight up in the air

When i drive through the city chasing a car crew, or on the run from one island to another, the war doesn't seem to be all over, but following me. When i come to a stop it catches up. If you widen the poll radius that spreads out the thugs too far, is there a way to formulate a "cone" in front of the moving player, or increase tickrate or shrink the poll radius during increased travel speed to make the feeling of the war seem continuous? I realize the easiest option is to just readjust the tickrate. If you are trying to keep the tickrates down though that's my thought.

I agree with the less car crews needed. For instance in Wars four cars in constant motion should easily keep the player busy, especialy since they go off in all directions. I think the tickrates should be lowered and the poll radius should be brought down and optimized for someone who is a "driver" like me. I love to behind the wheel with a car crew shooting and hunting down car crews. I just hate trying to wait for them to spawn, whether sitting idle in one location or driving around. The closer they spawn and quicker they respawn will give the affect of a higher number of them.

Oh, and a note, don't panic and start using the Recruit Ped horn option and lay on the horn about ten times while in traffic . It keeps releasing / grabbing peds as it should, but a couple of peds will step out of the cars as twitching statues after too many honks. They did get swept up by garbage collection when i drove away and came back. User error lol.

Last edited by motorsport71; 09-23-2010 at 10:08 PM..
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Old 09-24-2010   #176
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@Motor

Mayhem is pushed behind / lowest priority compared to all other cores. I may add a way to control that. It is currently intentional so all other cores have more to work with since anything affected by Mayhem will generally get skipped, although not always. The numbers were also reduced. The entire effort over these weeks and months has been focused generally on coming up with solid ways to "do what AW does" in ways that have the least impact on the game (performance) and the least chance of issues (statues, peds inside objects etc). The most recent incarnation (v2.1.0.0) proves to be the most significant strategy to accomplish both these goals. Future refinements should be possible to address some of these things while maintaining these positive results.

There is nothing in the city where you're not. Except for game objects (special peds, cars or other objects) marked to keep them from disappearing, the game does not generate objects where you're not or where you won't be / about to be. The game is constantly (and I mean fast fast) moving and recycling objects all over the world in relation to you. This is by design and a major reason GTA IV is playable at all. If it didn't do that and populated the world all the time the game would be a slide-show on anything less than comercial multi-core server farms due to the cycles and threads it would require. Because AW uses what the game provides, as soon as objects actually exist they are available for use but It can't use objects that aren't actually there. This simply becomes more noticable with AW because now the ambient world fodder you normally ignore all the time is brought to life with weapons and actions that make them stand out.

I do have some look-ahead code I wrote long ago that was in the old AW I'll see about possibly migrating it and determine if it's technically compatible with the "way" things are done now since it no longer creates objects on its own.

As noted in the rev history as part of the new performance strategy there is only 1 tickrate controlling war cores now and it's for the HUB. All cores are operating as-fast as your machine can do it, right now. The default rate is 4.4 seconds which is nominal and certainly faster than some machines will ever actually finish a round of operations across the cores. The new implementation provides the smooth low impact you're seeing. This is at the expense of AW having all cores blasting the snot out of the game engine regardless of other core opeations. The new way I've implemented is the reason the performance has jumped up greatly. In technical terms what this means is it has greatly reduced the total impact AW has on the game itself in the injected threads. They no longer dominate the game engine but instead work more in conjunction "with" the engine.

So at a rate of 4.4s with 16 street thugs, 5 to 8 car crews and 5 to 8 mayhem, the 4.4s rate will, on all but the FASTEST powerhouse mega gaming rigs, tick faster than the cores themselves can finish their operations. All cores are working as fast as they can "while" keeping the performance up (least impact) on the game engine for elimination or drastic reduction in hitching / bursting. So, reducing the tick rate will not make things happen any faster than you see them now. Only hardware can do that. Forcing it to "happen faster" will only result in degraded game performance. Having a world constantly populated and hammered with war is not fun if the price is terrible performance. The new strategy I came up with is the best balance so far between getting the most action happening "while also" having the least noticable performance impact on the game. And because this has always been, and still is, intended as Ambient, this is a milestone strategy and I'm quite happy about it

Now with all that said there is potential for more. Because of the dramatic road AW has taken and the knowledge I've gained I "may" be able to once again start creating objects in addition to only using objects the game has already created. That is unknown and won't be known until I do it. If it starts triggering issues from the past then it will not be possible. BUT, if it doesn't, then it will be used to buffer / offset some of the perception related issues. We'll have to see.

That won't be looked into though until I finish the current experiment I'm doing. One thing we've all wanted are cops that are more aggressive and able to chase thugs. I'm currently messing around with code related to cops. It will not be a real cop core yet by any stretch. It is a subset with specific goals, using what-ever cops exist in the world. It's geared toward seeing what is actually possible and to see their behaviors.

And speaking of behaviors I finally looked into those a little as well and I will be implementing behavioral and combat templates on some thugs which should make them more aggressive too.

Updated:

Woot. Initial results are excellent. Obviously there's a lot of tweaking required, but I just followed a cop that was scooped up in my new PoliceSquad core. Because of my code, he kicked on his siren and followed a car crew across the entire city, ramming him, yelling at him with the loud speaker (that's the game not me), etc etc. Full siren and lights going, didn't give a shit about other crews because he was doing what I told it too in the code. That was friggin sweet

Last edited by Ironhide; 09-24-2010 at 09:47 AM..
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Old 09-24-2010   #177
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awesome! I can't wait to try the police cores! (subliminal message... add car bombs ) In my haste I forgot to read the readme in this release, my RL personal stuff caused me to jump right in and watch AW kick ass.
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Old 09-24-2010   #178
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heh no worries dude. Some times there's hardly anything to "read" while other times it's huge with very significant changes. Currently enhancing the police squads in a big way. Going to give them good weapons so they can finally compete with the crews. So now squads that are tracking a crew will no longer jump out with pea shooters against heavy weapons. Going to give them either (random) a Desert Eagle, MP5 or M4/M16 and some armor and see how they do

Note the way it works right now I have a dedicated squad thread whos only role is activation from the cross-thread calls when a crew goes live. In essence it's an effecient way to snatch cops in the world and assign them specific goals related to crews. A side effect should mean (haven't tested yet) even if you are blasting cops and stuff, if a crew comes by and doesn't yet have anyone tracking them, and there are cops in a vehicle, they will say "ok to hell with you!" and go after the crew which could/should be another cool factor since you will suddenly become "less important" to them than "something else" which something I've wanted so long. As you damn well know I made AW in the 1st place because being SICK of the world caring about ME more than anything else no matter what. So this will or should be another step in the direction of making the world more Ambient and less "it's all about the player" etc.
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Old 09-24-2010   #179
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@Iron
This Core is going to be lots of fun. Okay, first of all, do you have an estimated e.t.a. on the first release?

secondly, i've been wanting to mention that the "P" key such as alt+p causes the games graphics "definition" toggle to activate. I didn't know if you caught that or not. Every time i would recruit a player i have to hit the "p" key to get the definition back. I just change the recruit key to "t" and release key to "g". I also, because it is more convienent, use "r" for the vehicle boost.

I gave GTA / AW one hell last night. I used my modded vehicle game which has 35 cars replaced. The average GTA vehicle is approximately 650 to 800 kilobytes. Downloaded vehicles are usualy in the realm of 3 to 5 1/2 megabytes each. I also installed a mod that removes all dirt / debris from cars so they are all shiny. I ran it at night with it raining with medium and high settings and wow... pretty. The game file is 1.0.6.0 and has given me no problems. 1.0.7.0 can't be modded yet, at least not with SparkIV. car bombs.

As far as the tickrate hub, i'm going to go back to the factory spec 1.0.7.0, lower the tickrate, and ramp up the preset to rebellion. If with my new config it my machine can handle it, i'll try Armageddon. Too bad i have to wait til later.
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Old 09-25-2010   #180
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@Motor

The 1st pass was just a feasibility test. Since it is I'll now go heavier with full custom objects.

As I already said regarding HUB tickrate, the current value of 4 seconds will be nominal for the widest variety of machines.
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