View Full Version : "you're born alone - you die alone"
"You're born alone, you die alone - Everything in between is an illusion."
A friend said this to me yesterday. He's saying it's your life and you must pursue whatever you need. Another way of saying is, "it's dog eat dog, and the smart win." I might point out that he is an Atheist. Isn't it easier that way, not having to consider what God wants from you, or how you affect others while you live "your" life?
At first it sounds like a selfish way of thinking, and it disagrees with the way I've been thinking for the past year, which is trying to co-exist with everyone and better myself and themselves at the same time. I have been trying to follow what God expects of me instead of what I want for myself. Maybe you can die surrounded by loved ones if you build and maintain relationships, and that doesn't happen with a self-serving mentality.
Alas, one never knows. It was a very interesting point and it got me questioning my ideals, which is always a good thing. There must be a way to reconcile these two ideas, so maybe you can offer another perspective.
Then the discussion becomes do you agree with the born alone, die alone statement? How do you live your life? What are your thoughts on this?
claud3
01-13-2009, 10:23 AM
dude. Whats up
I believe that your born die thats all. The bit in between for me is just something to keep you busy until death knocks on your door to take you away
that's a shallow way to live don't you think? your life doesn't even matter then.
claud3
01-13-2009, 10:31 AM
KODO, that is how i look at things
I am looking forward to my death. The reason why is that i don't fear it
Okay, you don't fear death, but so what? Now what are you going to do with your life in the meantime?
Like, why are you looking forward to your death when you're here, living now? Why aren't you looking forward to your life? Life is short, fast, and over tomorrow. Death will come without your help.
claud3
01-13-2009, 10:56 AM
dude, I am just alive that is all and to enjoy life i am i just do what i do to enjoy it that is all.
That to you might not make any sense but it does to me
No, it makes good sense. I was originally asking do you live to serve yourself, serve God (a higher power), serve others, some of the above, none of the above, all of the above....?
claud3
01-13-2009, 11:06 AM
I serve no one besides me. I do not believe in GOD,
Here i will not post i do not want this to be a one-way chat between us to. So i will reframe from posting until it picks up
cool with you
Yes I inferred that from your first post, but thankyou for making it concrete. And yes I was hoping more would join the discussion.
behzad_sol
01-13-2009, 11:19 AM
God is everywhere,here,there...God always test you to find your self,if you give up means you are too poor to problems in the life but if you success it,it means you are very strong with problems,then God will give some good things in your life to enjoy your life better than before
SAHelis
01-13-2009, 11:32 AM
Isn't everyone:
born with parents?
won't there be someone besides when you retire to Davy jones' locker?
Are you happy with your life right now? When your 20-30 years older, will you look back and say you enjoyed those times or despised them?
ZBRANIGAN
05-04-2009, 08:33 AM
being an atheist doesn't mean you can't help other people, it means you don't use "god" as an excuse to help other people! you describe it as "self-serving", but ultimately people who do use "god" are looking for a reward in the supposed afterlife as well.
i help my friends in the hope that if/when i need help myself, they may be in a position to do so, AND i enjoy their company! and i presume they enjoy mine. its mutually beneficial to us all.
"You're born alone, you die alone - Everything in between is an illusion."
"it's dog eat dog, and the smart win."
i don't agree that these statements are the same either(letter configuration not withstanding:P)
the "dog eat dog" one is pretty much "everyone's trying to kill you, kill them first!!", the "born alone" is more like "shit happens!! get over it!".
your friend is a nihilist more likely.
Legham
05-04-2009, 09:04 AM
Being Atheist and selfish is the easiest way to live your life. Im both, selfish to an extent. And yes, i do just look out for myself. BUT, thats not always a bad thing. Looking out for yourself can include looking out for other people if thats what makes you happy. If you like making people happy, then looking out for others IS looking out for you.
Im selfish in a few ways. For example, with my future i won't even consider planning where i move and study and work around what my gf wants to do as well. I've told her what i want to do, if she wants to stay with me she can follow. Although that didnt cause too much arguments in our relationship cause im the more ambitious and smart one of us. Otherwise, with money and helping people im really generous. It's just the big decisions that make a big difference to my life in the long run, that im selfish with.
Living this way works great for me. Always been popular, plenty of friends, and employers love me, my customers love me generally and my gfs pretty happy.
it's been many months since i posted that and my views have changed. the most important thing for me is to work on self awareness, since doing that will naturally determine the interactions with people.
zombienm
05-04-2009, 09:29 PM
I'm an athiest, and I believe life is simply here for you to do whatever you want. I don't think anyone needs to serve others if they don't want to, people shouldn't have to do anything they don't want to. What they do with their own life should be completely up to them.
I'm pretty selfish though, and I honestly don't care. I'd rather make myself happy than help other people out. I help my close friends, but I never donate or volunteer. I have to make something out of it for me to do it.
mtasa
05-05-2009, 04:38 AM
Hmm, probably all of you guys already know this.. But I just want to say it. Believers believed to be rewarded from God by doing good and punished by doing wrong to others. Like zombienm said that he, an athiest, doesnt include God in calculations of everyday activities (of course).. Which probably explains why he didnt really care bout donating or volunteering.. Believers are actually believed in an invisible rules that was created to encourage them to do good to others.. The rules were created and taught by and within the self.. and not all people can really believe in things that cant be seen or proved, which is why there are people who dont believe in God.. anyway, since we're all livin in the same ground, same earth, in the milky way, we are all connected. which means that we tolerate with each other and encourage peace and respect among us..
I'm an athiest, and I believe life is simply here for you to do whatever you want. I don't think anyone needs to serve others if they don't want to, people shouldn't have to do anything they don't want to. What they do with their own life should be completely up to them.
I'm pretty selfish though, and I honestly don't care. I'd rather make myself happy than help other people out. I help my close friends, but I never donate or volunteer. I have to make something out of it for me to do it.
In my experience if you expect something or need incentive to serve, you won't get anything. But what you are doing, making yourself happy in all situations, it's very important for your unique path. You might volunteer when you find a cause that is bigger than your self and you would love to share it with others.
yimpat
05-05-2009, 04:59 PM
Being atheist doesn't mean you're selfish. You can still feel compassion, no God is required. Sure, the moral guidelines are set out strictly for Christianity and that but it doesn't mean atheists are amoral. I personally believe religion is just a form of social control that gives people 'significance' in a world where we all individually mean so little as well as preforming a few other services that help to maintain control over society. I don't care what religion people are, just don't fucking tell me I'm damned and that you're better than me because it seems many Christians I meet do just exactly that, which really really pisses me off. So anybody like that can fuck right off.
zombienm
05-05-2009, 05:23 PM
I just don't see the point in living your whole life to serve a greater being you don't even have proof exists. It seems like a waste of your life if you live it for someone else.
And I'm not completely selfish, I just don't go to far out of my way to help others unless I feel I should or I want to.
ZBRANIGAN
05-05-2009, 05:28 PM
In my experience if you expect something or need incentive to serve, you won't get anything.
how is "heaven" not an incentive? do you not expect to go there for being selfless?:confused:
flint.44
05-05-2009, 08:10 PM
I have a friend who is very religious, and he does nothing with his life. Every time I ask him what he wants to do, he just says that God has his plans for him. He has no motivation for further education and only works temporary jobs in the fall. I believe we must forge our own path, expecting a higher power to do all the work for us is selfish in my opinion.
how is "heaven" not an incentive? do you not expect to go there for being selfless?:confused:
no, i don't expect to go there, that's not what this is. to me, selfless means being with the situation without expecting an outcome, and putting yourself aside when humility is needed.
I have a friend who is very religious, and he does nothing with his life. Every time I ask him what he wants to do, he just says that God has his plans for him. He has no motivation for further education and only works temporary jobs in the fall. I believe we must forge our own path, expecting a higher power to do all the work for us is selfish in my opinion.
how do you know that your friend isn't forging his path on the inside? he controls that much, maybe he is working on the inner and not concerned about the outer. if he says its all in gods control, i would say that's self defeating.
ZBRANIGAN
05-06-2009, 07:44 AM
no, i don't expect to go there, that's not what this is. to me, selfless means being with the situation without expecting an outcome, and putting yourself aside when humility is needed.
if "life" is the "situation", you do expect an outcome! heaven or hell! i assume you don't "want" to go to hell? and "hope" to go to heaven?................ that is your incentive.
if you honestly don't care which of those outcomes happen to you, then you truly are a new breed of believer!:confused:
I'm still not sure even after all I've witnessed , I think I will remain in my long standing agnostic stance, I neither belief nor disbelief, it seems logical to keep an open mind, for me it keeps me sane, otherwise I'd be a worse person than I was in my youth.
I need to be this way...hope you understand.
People will only do as much as it takes to feel they're in a positive view of people (or their god).
Sometimes you get truly admirable people who will go to any depth to help whichever cause they strive for.
flint.44
05-06-2009, 09:58 AM
What we do with out lives is our responsibility, a higher power does not do it for us. If our existence was controlled to a certain, pre-determined path, than there would be no point in living. I do not believe that humanity is the creation of one almighty being and created to do his bidding.
yimpat
05-06-2009, 10:10 AM
I don't know how people that are truly fatalistic can't be bitter at a god that made this world the way it is. All part of his big plan? Yeah, well then this guy is seriously fucked up.
if "life" is the "situation", you do expect an outcome! heaven or hell! i assume you don't "want" to go to hell? and "hope" to go to heaven?................ that is your incentive.
if you honestly don't care which of those outcomes happen to you, then you truly are a new breed of believer!:confused:
no it's not like that. from living experience, i can say that i'm just a small part of the whole existence and i can not expect something from it. to do this i must be open to infinite possibilities, like FG said. from here gratitude and devotion to life happen naturally because this could all be gone next second. when there are no expectations or conditions, true selfless acts happen.
I don't know how people that are truly fatalistic can't be bitter at a god that made this world the way it is. All part of his big plan? Yeah, well then this guy is seriously fucked up.
What parts do you not like? How do you know people didn't fuck things up?
ZBRANIGAN
05-07-2009, 08:14 AM
so you're an agnostic altruist then:confused: sorry, i was under the impression you believed in "god"
yimpat
05-07-2009, 09:40 AM
no it's not like that. from living experience, i can say that i'm just a small part of the whole existence and i can not expect something from it. to do this i must be open to infinite possibilities, like FG said. from here gratitude and devotion to life happen naturally because this could all be gone next second. when there are no expectations or conditions, true selfless acts happen.
What parts do you not like? How do you know people didn't fuck things up?
Many Christians believe that everything happens for a reason and that God has ultimate control. I do believe that people fucked things up but there's no reason behind it, no big plan that this is all part of. Life is life, it's not predetermined (my opinion) and justice isn't generally served.
Vortigern
05-07-2009, 06:23 PM
I'm an athiest, and I believe life is simply here for you to do whatever you want. I don't think anyone needs to serve others if they don't want to, people shouldn't have to do anything they don't want to. What they do with their own life should be completely up to them.
And that's where responsability and love come in. Responsability, to me, means obligations in order to achieve a higher goal; love is the ability to give or do anything for somebody else, completely selfless.